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When you think of Hocus Pocus, one of the first images that come to mind are the Sanderson Sisters and their iconic look.
Whether it be Winifred's green and purple cloak and dress, with gold accessories and Rune inspired detailing. Sarah's corset and flowing layers or Mary's functional, yet magical look, all of these looks were created by the extremely talented Mary E. Vogt. Now if you also add in Billy and Dani's look, along with a whole cast of characters picked directly from the Disney archive, then we're talking not just a bunch, but a whole lot of Hocus Pocus! Mary was kind enough to answer a few questions for the Museum and it was such a joy to learn more about the work and processes behind these characters and the fun that happened on set during the films production. So let's get into it! |
When you start to work on designs for a character, do you like to know who will be wearing the costume first or do you have an idea in mind and then shape that around the actor/actress?
The first thing I do is talk to the director about the tone of the film and how they see the characters. Kenny was very open and because Bette was playing the lead character we could go really far with the costume and still make sense. The Actor playing the character is the most important factor influencing the design with Ms Midler playing the part, it was impossible to go too far. Her personality is big enough not to be overpowered by any costume, the colours were chosen to suit her.
Sarah Jessica Parker’s costume was designed to suit her physique and personal style and the playful way she was going to play the character. Kathy Najimy’s was more earthy in her portrayal and her costume and colours reflect that. The actors always drive the costume on any production, if you don’t design for them and how they are going to portray the character, it looks like someone else dressed them and has no integrity.
The first thing I do is talk to the director about the tone of the film and how they see the characters. Kenny was very open and because Bette was playing the lead character we could go really far with the costume and still make sense. The Actor playing the character is the most important factor influencing the design with Ms Midler playing the part, it was impossible to go too far. Her personality is big enough not to be overpowered by any costume, the colours were chosen to suit her.
Sarah Jessica Parker’s costume was designed to suit her physique and personal style and the playful way she was going to play the character. Kathy Najimy’s was more earthy in her portrayal and her costume and colours reflect that. The actors always drive the costume on any production, if you don’t design for them and how they are going to portray the character, it looks like someone else dressed them and has no integrity.
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What was your inspiration behind the three Sanderson Sisters, Billy and Dani?
I do a lot of research on tone and colour. Goya’s “Les Caprices” was an influence, although the costumes don’t reflect Goya’s dark drawings, I was thinking about them. The colour influences were mostly from German expression Also Edward Hooper and John Singer Sargent. The Rune alphabet influenced Bette’s symbols on her costume. Arthur Rackham was always my favourite illustrator. The drawings he did for Sleepy Hollow were a big inspiration for Billy. Thora Birch was probably the most intelligent and mature person on the film, a real “Old Soul.” She was playing her character as playful, light and jubilant ten year old. Which was real acting given her mature intellect, so I went with that spirit and tried to make a homemade looking upbeat costume for her. Thora was the most intimidating actor on the show because she was so smart. Mary was also influenced by Walt Disney himself when creating the Sanderson Sisters costumes. I live in Los Feliz where Walt and Roy first lived and worked. My grocery store Gelsons stands where their small studio was on Hyperion Ave in Silverlake. When they moved to Burbank and started the big Disney Studios (which still stands today), they moved over the small studio. That original Disney studio was called the Shorts Building. |
Image: Ichabod Crane from The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, released in 1928 and illustrated by Arthur Rackham.
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I had my office in that building when I was designing the costumes for Hocus Pocus. There were original old Walt Disney drawings on the walls of Mickey Mouse and other characters and I felt Very Inspired by the atmosphere when I walked from the parking garage. I walked through the Animation Building and studied all the amazing original paintings for the backgrounds for Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Fantasia and more.
You are no longer allowed entry to that building. The backgrounds didn’t have glass on them so you could really see the colours. The colours were so beautiful and rich with a lot of depth and not harsh “primary colours”. I love German Expression which is sharper and more intense than these early paintings but similar. That is why I thought the Witches should have costumes in rich colour. Kenny Ortega agreed and convinced the studio executives. You might not think Hocus Pocus looks like a typical Disney film, but I was very inspired by the rich history and artistry of the early Walt Disney animated films and working in the same office when Walt Disney drew Mickey Mouse.
You are no longer allowed entry to that building. The backgrounds didn’t have glass on them so you could really see the colours. The colours were so beautiful and rich with a lot of depth and not harsh “primary colours”. I love German Expression which is sharper and more intense than these early paintings but similar. That is why I thought the Witches should have costumes in rich colour. Kenny Ortega agreed and convinced the studio executives. You might not think Hocus Pocus looks like a typical Disney film, but I was very inspired by the rich history and artistry of the early Walt Disney animated films and working in the same office when Walt Disney drew Mickey Mouse.
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Above: Concept art for Winifred Sanderson. Image credit: Mary E. Vogt.
What was the process behind making each costume?
Sketches are finalized and approved by the director. I believe Bette had to approve her costume but not the other actors. All the fabric is hand dyed by Mary Etta Lang in LA. The fabrics were all natural fibres, silks and cottons, they dye great and give the most intense colours. We used Aniline dyes to get the most intensity. I wanted to use all natural dyes from vegetables but we couldn’t get the intensity and edge.
The symbols on Bette’s coat were done using a Shibori technique (Dye resist) before it was sent to San Francisco. Jennie must have sent us a pattern for the coat, so Mary Etta would know where to stencil the symbols. A diagram drawing like a blueprint and all the dyed fabric was sent to the San Francisco Opera Costume Shop under the direction of Jennie Greene to be manufactured. The finished Costumes are sent back to LA for fitting on actors and stunt doubles.
After alterations are done, they go to the costume aging department headed by Mary Etta. Jewellery is made at different shops. Bette’s shoes are custom made by Di Fabrizio in Los Angeles. Sarah’s boots were Peter Fox boots. I don’t remember Kathy’s boots. They did a fantastic job making the costumes at the SF Opera Costume Shop. Making corsets and capes was easy for them. I think that’s why they held up so well. Theatrical costume shops make costumes to last, movie costume shops are different.
The intensity of the fabric colour was most important. There are Swarovski crystals on Bette’s outfit, which were put on after her fitting because it looked like it needed something. The costumes they wear when they are old are a different set, used only for those early scenes, duller colours and very dusty.
Sketches are finalized and approved by the director. I believe Bette had to approve her costume but not the other actors. All the fabric is hand dyed by Mary Etta Lang in LA. The fabrics were all natural fibres, silks and cottons, they dye great and give the most intense colours. We used Aniline dyes to get the most intensity. I wanted to use all natural dyes from vegetables but we couldn’t get the intensity and edge.
The symbols on Bette’s coat were done using a Shibori technique (Dye resist) before it was sent to San Francisco. Jennie must have sent us a pattern for the coat, so Mary Etta would know where to stencil the symbols. A diagram drawing like a blueprint and all the dyed fabric was sent to the San Francisco Opera Costume Shop under the direction of Jennie Greene to be manufactured. The finished Costumes are sent back to LA for fitting on actors and stunt doubles.
After alterations are done, they go to the costume aging department headed by Mary Etta. Jewellery is made at different shops. Bette’s shoes are custom made by Di Fabrizio in Los Angeles. Sarah’s boots were Peter Fox boots. I don’t remember Kathy’s boots. They did a fantastic job making the costumes at the SF Opera Costume Shop. Making corsets and capes was easy for them. I think that’s why they held up so well. Theatrical costume shops make costumes to last, movie costume shops are different.
The intensity of the fabric colour was most important. There are Swarovski crystals on Bette’s outfit, which were put on after her fitting because it looked like it needed something. The costumes they wear when they are old are a different set, used only for those early scenes, duller colours and very dusty.
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Out of the three Sanderson Sisters costumes, which one would you say is your favourite?
Of the Sanderson Sisters costumes I don’t have a favourite, but I have a real feeling of success with the background actors for the Halloween party where the sisters sing. At that point, I ran out of money and couldn’t afford to make or rent the costumes for the crowd, being a Disney show I had access to the Disney costume collection and I went there and pulled costumes from past Disney movies. If you look though the crowds you will find costumes from other Disney films, Tron is one of them.
Was there anything you wish you had added to any of the costumes you created for Hocus Pocus or was there anything that was changed last minute that you wish you had kept in?
I would have loved to have done a fibre optic or LED version of the witches costumes when they did “I Put a Spell on You.”
When working on the look for Billy, did you speak with Tony Gardner to help shape what Billy would look like or did you already have an idea in mind?
Tony was not involved with the look of Billy, but I worked very closely with him when Billy becomes headless. Tony is a fantastic artist and wonderful to collaborate with. I’ve worked with him on other projects and he is always great. Tony Gardner designed the hair and makeup for Billy. I had nothing to do with that, he did a fantastic job.
Of the Sanderson Sisters costumes I don’t have a favourite, but I have a real feeling of success with the background actors for the Halloween party where the sisters sing. At that point, I ran out of money and couldn’t afford to make or rent the costumes for the crowd, being a Disney show I had access to the Disney costume collection and I went there and pulled costumes from past Disney movies. If you look though the crowds you will find costumes from other Disney films, Tron is one of them.
Was there anything you wish you had added to any of the costumes you created for Hocus Pocus or was there anything that was changed last minute that you wish you had kept in?
I would have loved to have done a fibre optic or LED version of the witches costumes when they did “I Put a Spell on You.”
When working on the look for Billy, did you speak with Tony Gardner to help shape what Billy would look like or did you already have an idea in mind?
Tony was not involved with the look of Billy, but I worked very closely with him when Billy becomes headless. Tony is a fantastic artist and wonderful to collaborate with. I’ve worked with him on other projects and he is always great. Tony Gardner designed the hair and makeup for Billy. I had nothing to do with that, he did a fantastic job.
Image: Early concept art for Winifred. Credit: Mary E. Vogt
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From some of the original darker concept drawings to the final brighter design, Winifred’s look changed quite a lot, what inspired some of these changes?
In the beginning I explored a lot of ideas for the character. Then I studied Bette in concert and looked at what suited her best. The costume kept evolving and finally landed on what it is. Bette’s stage performances really inspired the final concept. Her personality and unique style inspired it. Bette Midler seemed to have been quite involved in her character design, what was it like working with her? Bette Midler is a force of nature. She is fantastic to work with, creative, intense, always throwing off sparks. She approved the final sketches. We made the costume fit and that was it. I think we had to keep working on the shoes but the costume itself she was ok with. My favourite memory of our interaction was - Small puppets were made for some of the flying sequences, they were beautiful! |
Dorothy Bulac recreated the witches costumes for the puppets, Dorothy is a artist and did a fantastic job. When I saw Bette’s costume I said to her dresser and friend Pam Wise “Let’s play a joke on Bette.” Pam said – “No let’s not.” I convinced her to go into Bette’s trailer with me.
I told Ms Midler there was a horrible accident with her costume, I made a mistake and sent it to the dry cleaner and it shrunk! She was furious and said how bad is it???? I was hiding the 10” costume behind my back and pulled it out and showed her the tiny perfect Winifred outfit. She laughed so hard she almost fell out of her makeup chair. I love that memory.
I told Ms Midler there was a horrible accident with her costume, I made a mistake and sent it to the dry cleaner and it shrunk! She was furious and said how bad is it???? I was hiding the 10” costume behind my back and pulled it out and showed her the tiny perfect Winifred outfit. She laughed so hard she almost fell out of her makeup chair. I love that memory.
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Was there anything you found a little tricky trying to create for Hocus Pocus?
The most difficult part about Hocus Pocus was getting the studio to agree to let the witches wear colourful costumes and not black, they were adamant that all witches wear black. Kenny Ortega, our wonderful Director, convinced them to let the witches wear colour. He was very diplomatic and got them turned around. As we all know, Hocus Pocus wasn’t a hit when it was released, however today it is considered one of the best Halloween films ever made. Did you ever think it would become the success that it is today and when did you start to notice its popularity was increasing? I went to an early screening of Hocus Pocus on the Disney lot with a lot of Studio executives and their very young kids. David Kirschner was probably there and Kenny. |
One of the miniature Sanderson Sisters that were used for the flying scene. Image credit: Prop Store.
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When Binks got run over, all the kids started crying and the executives said “This is not a Disney film.” I said from the back of the room have you seen Bambi? Mom gets shot!!! (Of course, I was ignored).
So I knew the studio was not behind the film, I was showing my film reel at an event years later and when Hocus Pocus came on screen people started clapping, I was amazed! That’s when I knew it had a second life.
So I knew the studio was not behind the film, I was showing my film reel at an event years later and when Hocus Pocus came on screen people started clapping, I was amazed! That’s when I knew it had a second life.
There are now multiple costumes available for people to buy of the Sanderson Sisters, stores such as Spirit Halloween seem to release new pieces inspired by the costumes you created, what’s it like seeing your work being recreated for so many others to wear and enjoy?
It’s very gratifying to see how people embrace the costumes of characters they come to love. I am always amazed how good the recreations are and how detailed they are. My favourite are the dog costumes.
It’s very gratifying to see how people embrace the costumes of characters they come to love. I am always amazed how good the recreations are and how detailed they are. My favourite are the dog costumes.
Salvador Perez did a great job of recreating the Sanderson Sisters costumes and he previously mentioned that you both spoke before the sequel went into production. Were you asked to return for the sequel?
Yes I was asked to do the second film but it just didn’t feel right to me, to try and recreate the atmosphere that was in the air on the first film, which was very unique. There were a lot of elements that came together that were completely unpredictable, that I didn’t think could be recreated.
When we shot in Salem, they were having the best fall season in 100 years! The fall colours were so intense, it looked amazing. I knew Kenny from a movie called “Shag” where he was the choreographer and watching him teach about 100 of local non-dancing extras to dance successfully was very impressive. His patience and talent showed what a terrific director he would be and fun to work with. Sal is wonderful and I knew he would do a great job!
Yes I was asked to do the second film but it just didn’t feel right to me, to try and recreate the atmosphere that was in the air on the first film, which was very unique. There were a lot of elements that came together that were completely unpredictable, that I didn’t think could be recreated.
When we shot in Salem, they were having the best fall season in 100 years! The fall colours were so intense, it looked amazing. I knew Kenny from a movie called “Shag” where he was the choreographer and watching him teach about 100 of local non-dancing extras to dance successfully was very impressive. His patience and talent showed what a terrific director he would be and fun to work with. Sal is wonderful and I knew he would do a great job!
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Above left: Concept art for Billy Butcherson. Right: Concept art for Mary Sanderson. Image credit: Mary E. Vogt.
What would you say was the most difficult production to work on, in terms of designing the look for specific characters?
It’s really impossible to design a character when the actor is miscast in the part. That happened in the very first film I designed called Secret Admirer. The lead female character was a 16-year-old bubbly high school cheerleader type. The actress that was cast was a beautiful, sophisticated young actress. They kept having me change her clothes, they had her haired dyed blonde (she was a brunette) and it kept getting worse and it undermined her confidence. So they finally fired her and the actress they hired was a very young Kelly Preston who I fit into the characters look in about a half an hour.
On a side note during one of my “Show in tells” on that film with the producer, a young director was pitching a film about the Vietnam War, he was very passionate but the producer said no one wants to see a movie about that war! Some other producer agreed to make the Vietnam film- it was “Platoon.”
If you had to pick just one costume you’ve created from everything that you have worked on as your favourite, what would it be and why?
I love the wedding dress from Crazy Rich Asians. The wedding dress from was very challenging to design because the bride was walking in 6” of water and the dress had to be waterproof. The actress was a ballet dancer and very strong with fantastic balance, so she was able to walk down the aisle in a heavy wet dress, barefoot and not fall!
It’s really impossible to design a character when the actor is miscast in the part. That happened in the very first film I designed called Secret Admirer. The lead female character was a 16-year-old bubbly high school cheerleader type. The actress that was cast was a beautiful, sophisticated young actress. They kept having me change her clothes, they had her haired dyed blonde (she was a brunette) and it kept getting worse and it undermined her confidence. So they finally fired her and the actress they hired was a very young Kelly Preston who I fit into the characters look in about a half an hour.
On a side note during one of my “Show in tells” on that film with the producer, a young director was pitching a film about the Vietnam War, he was very passionate but the producer said no one wants to see a movie about that war! Some other producer agreed to make the Vietnam film- it was “Platoon.”
If you had to pick just one costume you’ve created from everything that you have worked on as your favourite, what would it be and why?
I love the wedding dress from Crazy Rich Asians. The wedding dress from was very challenging to design because the bride was walking in 6” of water and the dress had to be waterproof. The actress was a ballet dancer and very strong with fantastic balance, so she was able to walk down the aisle in a heavy wet dress, barefoot and not fall!
